Ronen Zadoc, software developer

"It's a war. It's not a picnic."

We interviewed Ronen (friend of Serge) in our beachfront office. We talked politics for an hour or so, and he concluded with some good advice: "You should enjoy yourself here at the beach," he said. "Forget about politics."

Summary of video clips:

Part 1: I was born in Haliya, which is on the northern border, on the beach. My mother was born here (her parents came from German7); my father came to Israel from Yemen. He was six months old... Has life changed for you here because of the Intifada? Not at all. You're thinking more, but within Israel, we're just doing whatever we had done before. We have more security in schools, in all the public places... Would it be too dangerous for us to go to Ramallah. I don't know. There are journalists there, and usually they come out alive! Even more freedom of the press and expression in Israel than in the US.

You just saw what happened in Metzer... you cannot compare... this serial killer killed ten people in a month in Pennsylvania and Washington and all the world was looking. And here... I don't get it...to come into a room and kill a mother and two kids... Animals kill for food; people kill for fun... They wouldn't say they were doing it for fun, would they? But they are not getting anywhere. It would just be much worse for them. Is Israel getting anywhere when it bulldozes houses in the West Bank? Or is it the same thing... It's just getting worse and worse. I think what will happen now... there's no one to talk to with the Palestinians...all we have to do now is just wait (for regime change in PA)... Most of the settlements should be withdrawn, but not now. You cannot do it now. It is not a matter for terrorism to decide if there should be a Palestinian state or not; it's political and negotiations. And if you have terror, it brings not such good outcomes. And they're feeling it. Listen, I'm not jealous of any Palestinian residents there. They're having a very miserable life now. It's unbelievable!

The key is the Arab countries and not the Palestinians. No Arab country has democracy. If they were to have a democratic Palestinian state and their lives were improved...just think about Syria...they are living there in terrible conditions... In Israel we have about $17,000 US per capita. In the PA it was last year about $1000. Now it's about half. Syria it's about half. Jordan about $1000. Even Egypt and the other countries...so why is Israel so successful? You can see all over the world, just look at all the democracies and look at the undemocratic regimes all over the world. Unless you've got oil, and then the average is not a true indicator.

What about the recent Arab conference in which they came up with a much-improved position about Israel, calling for peace in exchange for Palestinian independence? Of course. I'll buy it. Even Sharon will buy it. Even Netanyahu will buy it!

Part 2: The person we interviewed this morning (Chatto) said that there is no occupied territory. That it's all Israel and has to be Israel for security. It won't, so it doesn't matter. The West Bank and Gaza will become a Palestinian state. Of course. We all know what the result will be. We all know what the last stage is. What we don't know is how long it will take, and how much blood will be spent. Do you have any ideas about how you can make it faster and less bloodshed? No. Do you? It's only a matter of changing the current leadership and making their lives much better. But every time the IDF bulldozes a house or something like that, doesn't that make it worse... Because we didn't get to the lowest level yet. That's the blood we were talking about. It's going two ways. I think that destroying houses of suicide bombers is the right thing to do. What about destroying their mother's house? It's the same house. What about exploding in the canyon (mall)? The result is, just know, if you destroy the mall, we'll destroy your house, or your parents' house. It's a package deal. Whenever the IDF goes out of the cities, there are suicide bombers in Israel. That's a fact. I don't believe that we can afford not to retaliate after every incident. Every single one.

Just look what happened in the States. It was a single incident (although 3000 people died). Half of the US army went to Afghanistan, and now to Iraq... You cannot live with terror. No way. If you accomplish, no matter wherever in the world, something with terror, you are just opening the window or the door to let them in...

Law enforcement means that you try to identify the people who are guilty and punish them for it. Do you know what happened in Jenin in the last two weeks? A big IDF operation there. Going from house to house, looking for the person who sent the bombers to the mall...he was personally accused of killing 31 Israelis. You didn't hear of anyone dying there. It was a huge operation. He was captured...his wife was captured. He was shot because he was throwing grenades at the IDF, he got one back. A huge operation, very large forces went to Jenin and PICKED HIM...they weren't destroying houses... After the huge operation in Jenin, you all heard about the massacre. How many people died there? 40? And CNN kept filming the houses. Once you saw it from a helicopter, it wasn't such a big neighborhood. Only a few houses. They booby-trapped everything. It's a war. It's not a picnic. In a war, innocent people get hurt. That's something you have to understand.

Part 3: So you think all the strikes by the IDF are directed at legitimate military targets? Most of the time; there are people that are getting killed needlessly. There are. It's a war. (Michael asks: Why is the world so quick to believe Israeli atrocities, and so slow and so apologetic to believe non-Jewish actions. I argue that CNN, for example,) would certainly consider Metzer an atrocity.) And? What are they doing? Did you here anyone trying to convince the Palestinians not to do it again and again? Did you hear about any sanctions against them? Did you hear about any resolutions in the UN?

Have you seen the emblems the PA are using? They have Palestine on their shirts, but it shows all of Israel! And they are talking about Jerusalem as the holiest place. Do you know that Jerusalem is the third place for the Moslems, not the first.

Part 4: We are talking, for the last hour, about only one issue, and it's only a matter of time. We will solve it, one way or the other. I think something people are forgetting is what Israel has accomplished in the last 55 years, and that's something that you don't have anything like it in the world. Look for another country that in 55 years accomplished such achievements as Israel. No one in the world. In terms of education, in terms of high tech, the economy, getting so many immigrants. No country in the world. And that's something people are forgetting. To get from nothing to a GDP that is number 20 in the world, after established counties like Europe, the States... It's something really special, especially in the Middle East... In the West Bank there's many detentions, no due process ... perhaps you will argue that if the IDF is arresting somebody, he must be guilty. I'm sure that there are people getting arrested without reason. I'm sure. When you are talking about so many terrorists, and each one of them has tens of people that sent him, prepared, gathered information. So when you are looking for informatiOn, I'm sure that they are getting to the wrong people as well. I'm sure. There are things that you are doing, and maybe innocent people are getting hurt. I'm not saying that's okay, but that's the fact. You cannot avoided it; you have to make sure you keep it to a minimum. It's a war.

Part 5: "Go to the beach!"

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